4 Matching participants

Our latest DNA participant, 276174 (names held for privacy reasons), has stirred up a great deal of excitement. His DNA and that of 40218 and 192656 match 67 markers exactly. But then the mystery begins.

40218 is documented to having ancestor Thomas Winder, born in 1814 in Ohio, parents unknown.

276174 is documented back to Henderson Winder (born ca 1813 in Coshocton, Ohio) and Charity Meeks. Henderson's father was apparently James Winders, born somewhere between 1776 and 1794 in Pennsylvania. His mother would then be Lucinda Taylor. The two were married in 1813 in Coshocton, Ohio.

192656, however, is documented back to James G. Winder, born 1794 in Pennsylvania. The descendants of James G. hung around in Kentucky and Indiana, far from Coshocton, Ohio. And yet the DNA results show that all three participants have the same Most Recent Common Ancestor.

There is a fourth participant, 174650, who matches 66 of 67 markers of the three we just detailed. He is documented back to Samuel Winders, born about 1780. Samuel lived all over the place, being born in Virginia, lived in Kentucky and Indiana and died finally at his sister's house in West Virginia... not far from Coshocton, for what it is worth.

Somehow, all four of these have to be related to the same MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor). Which brings us to a most interesting piece of information: the estate of one Marsham Winder, born about 1795 and died 1833 in Indiana. Marsham died intestate.  The court divided his estate equally to each of 8 individuals. Since the amounts were all equal, we assume that those 8 individuals were his siblings.

So now we have:

MRCA, born somewhere around 1750, who had sons

James Winder (born between 1776 and 1794), who married Lucinda Taylor

     son Henderson

           son ancestor of 276174

           perhaps son ancestor of 40218

            son Unknown

                        David Winder

Marsham Winder

Samuel Winder

John B. Winder

James G. Winder ancestor of 192656

It is quite possible that the James who fathered Henderson also fathered Marsham and his siblings by an earlier marriage. BUT. The Samuel Winder, son of Unknown, seems to be the son of Samuel Winder and wife Rebecca. Perhaps James and Unknown were brothers.  We don't know.

So we are searching for some documentation. The individuals mentioned in Marsham's will are described in the page labeled Marsham Estate. Any help in this matter would be appreciated!

Winder or Wilder?

Researchers of the Winder / Winders familial lines have long been aware of the lack of consistency in the spelling of the name. Not only could a family have members called both Winder and Winders, even a specific individual could spell his name either way.

Recently, a participant in the Winder DNA project was found to have a 67 marker match with two participants in the Wilder DNA project. The administrator of the Wilder project, P. Beth Adams, informed me that she was aware of this name confusion, going back to Nathaniel Wilder (b. 1667) of Norfolk County, Virginia. She thought it possible that Moses WINDER who was in Washington County, Virginia in 1820 could be a decendant of Michael WILDER of Virginia.

In any case, the participants with DNA matching the WINDER / WILDER markers do not appear to have been descended from Thomas Winder and Sarah Bull. We have yet to discover their immigrant ancestor.

The Beatty Subgroup

Some time ago, we were contacted by the administrator of the Beatty project. Apparently, 6 (now 7) of our participants could have an ancestor named Beatty (or a large number of Beattys could have a Winders ancestor). They are the ones which combine DYS389i = 14, DYS448 = 18 and DYS442 = 11. If you look at the DNA test results for our project, you will see these marker names heading the columns. These alleles (markers) are each a bit rare and the combination is distinctly rare. A large group in the Beatty Project has a common ancestor who lived in the border region between England and Scotland about 1300-1500. This Beatty family is part of a larger group called the Beatty-Byrne cluster (BBC) which had a common ancestor a few centuries earlier. Our experience tells us that the 6 Winders men are almost certainly part of the BBC. The BBC is in haplogroup R1b1b2a1b5, and further are positive with the relatively new SNP, L159.2.

 It appears that these Winder participants trace back to Thomas Winder (1680-1734), those being participants who descend from:

• Thomas Winder(1680-1734), b. United Kingdom
• Clement Winders (1790-aft 1858), b. MD
• Lafayette Winders (1825-1889), b. Fayette Co, PA
• James G. Winder(1794-1857), b. PA
• Thomas Winder (1814-1862), b. OH
• Henderson Winder (1813-1865), b. Coshocton, OH
  Joseph W. Winder (1837-1903) b. TN or MO
  
  

About the Winder Wonderland

The Winder Wonderland DNA Project was started to help sort out the different lines of Winder/Winders and to break through some long-standing genealogical brick walls. The website is located at Winder Wonderland Surname Project. We use Family Tree DNA testing services. The results of the DNA testing are updated as new participants join the project. The interpretation of those results have so far been left up to the participants. The three co-administrators of the project, however, keep up a running examination of what we have learned and what we have not learned.

There are three administrators of this project: Ann Winder, Deven Lewis and John Winder, each with different areas of expertise. We are starting to understand more about how the different family lines connect or not. Over time, we concentrate on one area or the other, depending on what clues, DNA-wise or otherwise, come to our attention.

It has occurred to us that it would be smart to share our musings with the world. It is more than likely someone out there can shed light on our research. Perhaps someone has a diary, a letter, a photograph that will explain family links more clearly... or even just make our ancestors seem more real. Or perhaps someone has already researched the area that is currently puzzling us.